These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum 3. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Sig P320 Accidental Discharge Problem - Topic Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Either the gun is defective or its not. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. No autographs, No self taken pictures. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. They are being replaced with Glocks. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Weird how that might happen. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. 1:07. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. That could happen easily. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. It did not originally have this. ALL OF THEM. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. . I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. . The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. But Shatner? I continue to bet my life on them. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. He probably had a double until it was over. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Great job, this threat needed some levity! It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Misfires and Lawsuits Plague Sig Sauer P320 Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . . Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Folks disagree on brands. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. congrats. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. The problem was strikers. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Anyway around here they do. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Thats SIGs term for a recall. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. The new Kirk does suck. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Kyle . Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. P320 Accidental Discharge Still an Issue : r/SigSauer - reddit Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Look a fanboy. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Ron, Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. A fine of up to $10,000. They function as commanded every time. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. three changes to the original design. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. Im more of a DS9 guy. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Time will tell if no. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Nope. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! He was told to shoot two rounds. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Dont care for them, not my jam. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Plastic crap! Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Good job! If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Liberal, Conservative. On Thursday, M.D. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. The P320 pistol is a dog. Thats fine. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. (unless theyre SWAT or something). None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. PDs are dropping them from contracts. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem.
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